TommyGunner Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Just found out today that if Tom upgrades his FFL to a class 3 that we can sell and repair NFA toys! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Of course we could not sell to private citizens in New York, but we could sell to Law Enforcement here and to other class 3 dealers in and out of state! Was supprised that we could do this. Having a hard time finding out anything on this. Atf has been impossible to get hold of. Would any of the knowledgeable board members be willing to give me some info on how to go about this? I tried searching the board to no avail. Thanks in advance for the help. Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill in VA Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Federally speaking, he first needs to have an FFL (and not a type 03/C&R FFL.) From there, for him to be able to sell machineguns and other NFA toys, the only thing your buddy needs to do is pay his SOT (Special Occupational Tax.) That's it. There is no special federal license to deal in or manufacture NFA devices. He is simply paying an additional tax. If he has a type 01 FFL ("run-of-the-mill" FFL to deal in firearms) he will be applying for a class 03 SOT. OTOH, if he is a type 07 FFL (manufacturer) he'll be filing for a class 02 SOT. Tell him he needs to fill out an ATF Form 5630.7 (SOT Registration.) Since he already has a business license he includes his EIN (Employer ID number...his IRS account number for paying taxes) and the rest of the required information, plus a check for $500 (assuming his most recent business tax return has him grossing less than $500k.) FWIW, without an EIN the BATF will not grant his SOT. He can either request the forms from the BATF or download them from www.titleii.com. Of course, all of this is also contingent upon state and local laws, and with him being located in New York, there's no telling what kind of state/local laws/ordinances he'll have to follow. Have him check those first. (It may not be a bad idea for him to contact, in writing, the state's Attorney General's office. They're very careful what they put in writing and will make sure all teh legal Ts are crossed and Is dotted.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Damon, I belive this is the short cut to the form online. SOT Form 5630.7 Good luck and now you can be making the videos and giving us good deals on Thompson's......right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Thanks Fellas! Bill, I spoke with Randy Smith today and he basically said the same thing you did...federally speaking. He also reccomended that Tom go change his ffl 01 to an ffl 07 and then a class 2 sot. He said this would cost about the same but would allow for the manufacture of unregistered MG's (actually anything other than destructive devices or armor penetrating ammo) for practice work instead of experimenting with expensive transferable mg's. (said a stamp was needed for each gun manufactured or something but didn't cost any $$$). Locally...I spoke with NYS Troopers Troop F "resident expert" on nfa guns and he said that as long as Tom had a Class 2 or Class 3 SOT, it was not a problem. The only thing is that here in NY you cannot sell anything NFA to the public. But we can still sell to govt or law enforcement and do repairs for the same, sell to other class 3 dealers that can sell to the general public, Manufacture, and do repairs for lawfully registered MG's out of state. I did not think to ask if any MG's can be brought to the local gun clubs range to testfire. If not, wonder if a possible work around be to buy a property for the business suitable for test firing...(and of course the ocassional drum dump! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif )...and legaly transport between business locations? Must be some provision for transportation. Locally however Tom cannot take a customers handgun outside the shop. I will have to investigate this further. I think that your idea to contact the states atty gen office (Elliot Spitzer...not a pro gunner) is the best advice. Thanks a bunch! Mike...Oh yes...in a big way! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 TOMMYGUNNER,FULLAUTO, BILL,.. I THOUGHT IF YOU ARE C2 O7 FFL YOU ALSO HAVE REGISTER WITH THE STATE DEPT. YEARLY BECAUSE OF YOUR ABILITY TO MANUFACTURE DDs AND EXPORT NFA.CAN YOU GUYS CLARIFY THIS?TIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimf5 Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 To All I am a type 01 dealer here in Reno, NV and was looking into the SOT to add to my license. What is posted above is correct except that the $500 fee runs from July 1 to June 30. This means when I called in October to see how much it would be from then on I was told it was not something that was prorated. This ment I lost four months of the 12 it went for. I will try again in june of next year so i can get my monies worth. JIMF5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 JimF5...I must make a correction to my previous statement: (actually anything other than destructive devices or armor penetrating ammo) This in fact was not mentioned by Randy but I read this on a website I researched on the matter: Quarterbore Where I read: a 07 ffl is a Title 1 manufacturer of firearms, ammunition and ammunition components other than NFA, Destructive Devices and Armor Piercing ammunition I failed to realize that this did not apply once the Class 2 or 3 was obtained. Thanks for clarifying that for me. Would you be willing to share a little more about what is involved in registering with the state dept? Fees? JimF5...Good point! Thanks for pointing that out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Thanks a bunch, Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill in VA Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 21Smoker, You're correct in that an FFL/SOT 07/02 has to register with the State Department, however, an FFL/SOT 01/03, merely as a dealer, does not. (Where's Randall? He knows the ins and outs of the State Department far better than I do... He's the one to give you the skinny on going through those hoops.) As an aside, personally, I find all-caps difficult to read. This isnt a flame, but unlocking your caps lock key would make your posts easier on the eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Bill in VA,Hardrede,Phil,etc... Thanks for all the info,sorry about the cap locks, I type in the KISS mode.Keepem`Smokin` out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 As an 01 you would have to register as well because by the information you provided, as an 01/SOT you would be acting as a broker of defence articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Oh, as an exporter...got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Yep, my hero, via an uncle that served with him. BTW my uncle survived WWII and Korea then ended his career in Vietnam 1968...came home in a box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balder Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Geez guys, you had me rolling on the floor laughing while reading your little ping-pong match here. I'm glad I live in a country with substantially less red tape - although we have our fair share here as well. Merry Christmas everybody - be nice to each other! Balder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Balder, Can you get Montezuma's Revenge for drinking the "Heavy Water" in Norway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie32 Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Alright, lets just pretend for a little while here that this topic is back to the original discussion.... I am a NY State resident, a NY state licensed pistol dealer, a Federally licensed 08 Importer/Exporter and I would like to get a license to deal in NFA weapons. I can get, according to the application which I have in front of me, a Class 1- Importer of Firearms, a Class 2- Manufacturer of Firearms, or a Class 3- Dealer in Firearms. I would prefer to get a Class 1 so that I might be able to import (as dealer samples obviously) NFA weapons, and assuming that I already have an 08 FFL, this would theoretically be alright. This Class 1 license would then also allow me to deal in NFA weapons, but would it allow me to manufacture them(as the importer of a gun is then, according to ATF, the manufacturer)? Also, upon reading the informational posts, I came across this: "He said this would cost about the same but would allow for the manufacture of unregistered MG's (actually anything other than destructive devices or armor penetrating ammo) for practice work instead of experimenting with expensive transferable mg's." How could one legally be allowed to manufacture and unregistered mg? Or does this mean you could then register by means of being a manufacturer unregistered mgs? I don't see how that could be alright, however, I don't know, which is why I'm asking. Thank you all for any and all help. Happy holidays!!!! Sincerely, George R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balder Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Arthur, Most of what we had of "heavy water" in its true configuration was sunk in 1943, and I doubt that drinking it would initiate Montezuma's revenge - but I think you might have found yourself in a position of receiving Gestapo's revenge. However, in this country we do have some liquids that in most foreigners' eyes qualify as "heavy water", one of them was nicked "nakkeskudd" - shot in the neck- just after WW2. The key word here is aqua vitae, or Norwegianzed to akevitt. You're all more than welcome to have a shot! Balder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta3-2 Posted January 4, 2004 Report Share Posted January 4, 2004 QUOTE (hardrede @ Dec 21 2003, 10:14 PM) Well, do you feel better now???? I would suggest taking two Xanax and calling your other personality in the morning. You are obviously an argumentative person that likes to start Internet "fights." While I can apprecitate your aggression, this is probably not the proper forum. As to your condenscending attitude about my "credentials", yes in fact, I have a 4-year degree in Criminal Justice. As well, I am intelligent enough to call the number that I supplied and get the correct information from someone that knows. I did not know until I called. You can be as angry as you want, and you can call upon your "friends" at the DOS, (Yes, that is the acronym they use for computer short-hand now) but if you reach the AECA-RSAT and talk to Mr. Doug Johnson, he will also tell you the same thing. He is also the same man that told me a PD could not import Thompson's from Marstar on an official PO. (Sorry about the capital letters to denote acronym's, hope you didnt have any trouble.) If you are really this worked up about this issue, call BATFE Licensing, apply for your Type 07 FFL, and when they come to interview you for the license, ask your compliance inspector if you need to register with the US State Department. In the mean time, you are coming across as a poseur that is argumentative and emotion-driven. This is not what we need currently in the firearms community. Maybe you could take up needle-point with Rosie Greer???? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif The author you refer to as coming across as "argumentative" does not appear so to me. Further your reference to him that the firearms community does not need people such as him really angers ME ! Personally I am tired of whiners who complain about someone who expresses dismay, frustration, and/or anger on various forums. We are all human, and we have emotions that are often expressed here whether you like it or not. The way I see it is that you are most antagonistic. However, unlike you, I will not tell you to knit one, pearl two with Rosy Grier. Nor will I suggest you aren't needed here because YOUR rantings offend me. What I will say is I feel YOU need to quit following the politically correct road of being offended by others and then attacking them on this forum or others like it simply because you don't like what is expressed. In a nutshell....I have little respect for people who complain about what others post on a given forum. I say to you....GROW UP and quit attempting to denigrate the individual you complain about. Evidently HE has a pair of nuts ! Remember this from school days...."stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." ? Live by it....and you will enjoy better sleep when you end your day. Dan G. Girard, PA USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mp40 Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Hardrede, If I may ask what is the purpose in registering? is it for importation purposes? or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mp40 Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Well, I am out of the loop here, because of this Dammed state that I currently live in! its either become a dealer or no NFA toys period! that sucks! Anyways, I was just curious about the subject because it sounds like the Govenment to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mp40 Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Well, that makes sense to me if you are manufacturing weapons (doesn't matter what) the Gov. would wan't to know and keep tabs on you...Ya, becoming a dealer sounds ok. But, is it really worth it? I mean long hours demo-ing Thompsons and other subguns to police who might not want "old Thompsons" http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif is there enough departments/agencys that want Yugo AK's, M1 Thompsons, Uzi's,MAC 10's etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Thanks everyone for your help...and not to metion the amusing banter! Hearing so many conflicting opinions from knowledable folk...I think we may have an atty look into this for us. Also will consult the NYS atty gen. Local law enforcement says all is well with it and we can even test fire or demo at the local gun range! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif hardrede...I will be sure to call DOS at that number to look into that. Thanks. Wish us luck...will let you all know how it pans out. Thanks again, Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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