Brown1502003 Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Hello All, New to the forum. Hope you'll bear with me and direct me to a different discussion if it applies. I work in law enforcement and have been tasked to look at preserving and displaying the proper way, a very early Thompson in our possession. Its a "MODEL OF 1921" serial "NO 133". Because I've been asked before, lol. No that's not a typo. The serial number is correct. Given its potential monetary value, but more importantly its historical value as it was presented to our department new from the manufacturer, we are looking to make sure it is taken care of. Also why I'm reluctant to just field strip it and clean it. Its currently on display behind glass in our agency but is starting to develop some surface rust. so looking to get in touch with someone who knows how to do a museum quality preservation and display. Contacted Cody Firearms Museum but haven't heard back yet. Any thoughts on who I could contact for further would be appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1921A Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) I use 0000 steel wool with a small amount of R.E.M. Oil to gently remove surface rust. Use light pressure and the surface rust should remove easily. Field stripping is simple and should be in your handbook. If you don't have a handbook with the gun, you can do a google search for "field stripping a model 1921 Thompson" and it should produce videos and written directions with pictures. Most of the Thompson collector books also have instructions and pictorials for field service. Edited January 21, 2018 by 1921A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirtyround Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Brown, You came to the right place to find all the info you seek. First... Where are you / your Thompson located? Could be a very knowledgeable member here might live close by and drop in on you on your invite, and offer all the advise and expertise in disassembly of your gun. Next , Get some oil on that gun! and gently remove the rust. Take some good clear pic's of the gun, both sides and top of receiver, ensure all markings can be viewed well, then the barrel and wood, lower frame as well. Post them here for board members to see and comment on. When a possibly unknown Thompson appears, especially an (as described by you) 1921 that came straight from Auto Ordnance.... Standby, for the wave of interest in your gun, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown1502003 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Thanks for the quick responses so far. The gun has actually been documented in local news media. It's in possession of the Fort Thomas Police Department in the northern part of KY. We're right across the river from Cincinnati Ohio and adjacent to Newport, Ky (for those who know the history of the area). If there was someone local that would be even better. I have some pictures of it in the display case. But none on the computer i'm working from now. I'll get some posted soon. Thanks Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 You have two excellent board members in TD. and dalbert that are very close to your location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt21 Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Sure would like to see some pictures of that 21 on here. Some things to consider while You're waiting for someone local with knowledge to possibly visit is to use a thin piece of leather or card over any tool that you decompress the pivot plate springs with for takedown and also use card stock or a playing card under the tab of the ejector if you decide to unscrew it. I was a Police officer for 29 years and we had Colt Thompsons. They displayed one of ours in the Museum with the bolt retracted but removed the recoil spring while doing so. I personally would advise not to take parts out of the gun ( they have a way of getting lost) and leave the actuator forward for display, even with a drum magazine in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Yes, TD. is the closest, and I'm about 35 minutes away. Don't do anything about the "surface rust" until it is confirmed. I bet Tom would come over there during the week to take a look at it. My availability is mostly limited to weekends. I will text Tom, and let him know about this post, in case he hasn't seen it already. I could potentially come down there tomorrow, if you're available. According to Gordon Herigstad's book, "Colt Thompson Serial Numbers," the Fort Thomas, Kentucky PD was the first consumer owner of #133, but it was sold to them by the Logan Hardware & Supply Company out of Logan, West Virginia. It was shipped to the seller on 4/23/21. So, this Colt went from Colt on behalf of Auto-Ordnance to Logan Hardware & Supply Co., to the Ft. Thomas PD. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 If there is rust forming on the gun, once it is removed, an application of Renaissance Wax would be beneficial for the metal and the wood. https://www.amazon.com/Renaissance-Micro-Crystalline-Wax-Polish-65/dp/B001DSZWEM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwiifirearms Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 I agree that preservation for display it is best to us a microcrystalline conservators wax like Renaissance Wax. It does not hold up if the item is handled much, but for long term display it is ideal. Also look into application methods. We got some great data from tragic flooding in New Orleans a few years back. Some of the old flint locks in the museum had the wax applied after warming the artifact before application and those survived far better that those applied cold. While Northern Kentucky isnt likely to be flooded by sea water anytime soon, why not give it the best protection possible. Tempting as it would be, warming it up with a couple of mag dumps probably isnt how the pros do it. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Didn't CC look at this gun in the last couple of years? Or had one from the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 Private Message sent. Or contact me at: tkd5501@fuse.net TD. Union, KY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 I did have the opportunity to view #133 and take some pictures. It was displayed in a glass case above a door frame. Very friendly staff the day I was there. At the time I also visited the Cincinnati Police museum, they had #7000 on display, and also visited Colonel Thompson's home. Very interesting weekend. At this time I can only find one picture. Colt #7000 on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Looks a little rust freckled it might clean up OK though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 The 28N looks like it has a Kahr or even a Japanese Gun Manufacturing ( or whatever they called themselves ) L drum in it. Maybe a little red flag on what's in the 21, maybe not. Hope TD will find out. Going to be an interesting thread here, says I.Smart for Brown to hook up here. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) By the looks of the case you have it in, you might be able to exchange the air for Nitrogen and that would stop the rusting. Removing the Rust, contact the Smithsonian, Steel wool may damage the finish and lessen the valueHere is another place you can contact that has and extensive firearms collection.Autry Museum of the American West4700 Western Heritage Way, Los Angeles, CA 90027-1462Phone: 323.667.2000 Edited January 21, 2018 by Paladin601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Agree with Paladin. Or also try the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody, WY. Supposedly the largest collection of Winchester rifles in the world! Sure they know a thing or two about rust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Here is a good article from the NRA Armorer And notice they say "Bronze wool" not steel wool. Steel wool leaves little bits of metal that rust on the finish.https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2016/11/23/hints-from-our-armorer-prevent-gun-rust/ Edited January 21, 2018 by Paladin601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Good for TD to look before cleaning. I did just try a cleaning pad from www.big45metalclearner.com on an 1897 Winchester. I believe it's a scrub pad made from monel, It worked fine and did not remove any bluing. I have used steel wool before and it can remove bluing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown1502003 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hey guys, Thanks for all the responses. I've got requests in to Cody museum already but just sent, so no reply yet. Head curator is out for Shot Show. The picture Colt Chopper posted is indeed ours. Ill get some additional pictures posted asap if nothing else, for drooling purposes. (I stop and do the same occasionally even though I walk past it every day.) I'll be getting in touch with TD later today hopefully. And thanks to DAlbert for the info on the ownership. Lot of stories have floated about its origins. Many thought it was one of the "Steel Plant Riot Guns" but those seem to be later serial numbers. Its been in our inventory obviously for a long time and just want to see it cared for right. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renovate7 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Do NOT use steel wool. It WILL remove bluing. That material should be banned from the entire firearm world. Use BRONZE wool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) By the looks of the case you have it in, you might be able to exchange the air for Nitrogen and that would stop the rusting. Removing the Rust, contact the Smithsonian, Steel wool may damage the finish and lessen the value Here is another place you can contact that has and extensive firearms collection. Autry Museum of the American West4700 Western Heritage Way, Los Angeles, CA 90027-1462Phone: 323.667.2000 What would be a little more practical than nitrogen would be a goldenrod. The goldenrod just elevates the temperature in the safe (or case) by a few degrees this is enough to keep atmospheric moisture from settling on the gun. Apparently the temperature of metal objects like guns always lags behind the room temperature. The air in the room might be 68 degrees, then warms to 73 degrees, but the gun stays 68 degrees for a few more hours. During that time, the 73 degree air in the room dumps tiny amounts of moisture on the gun. So the goldenrod keeps the temp in the safe a few degrees higher than room temperature. That's my understanding of how it works. https://www.amazon.com/Goldenrod-725721-GoldenRod-Original-Dehumidifier/dp/B00DBTCFGY Edited January 21, 2018 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) By the looks of the case you have it in, you might be able to exchange the air for Nitrogen and that would stop the rusting. Removing the Rust, contact the Smithsonian, Steel wool may damage the finish and lessen the value Here is another place you can contact that has and extensive firearms collection. Autry Museum of the American West4700 Western Heritage Way, Los Angeles, CA 90027-1462Phone: 323.667.2000 What would be a little more practical than nitrogen would be a goldenrod. The goldenrod just elevates the temperature in the safe (or case) by a few degrees this is enough to keep atmospheric moisture from settling on the gun. Apparently the temperature of metal objects like guns always lags behind the room temperature. The air in the room might be 68 degrees, then warms to 73 degrees, but the gun stays 68 degrees for a few more hours. During that time, the 73 degree air in the room dumps tiny amounts of moisture on the gun. So the goldenrod keeps the temp in the safe a few degrees higher than room temperature. That's my understanding of how it works. https://www.amazon.com/Goldenrod-725721-GoldenRod-Original-Dehumidifier/dp/B00DBTCFGYI have goldenrods in both safes and really like them, so sign of rusting on metal, but, I do have wood drying out. With Nitrogen, since his thompson will not be shot, there should be "zero" maintenance on the gun needed with less handling . Edited January 22, 2018 by Paladin601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown1502003 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Hey all, Just wanted to say thanks for all the information. I got in contact with TD directly and he has graciously offered to help us. Hope to meet later this week. And no i didn't forget the pictures. lol. We're gonna get some high res ones after we remove it from the display. Thanks again to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Lot of stories have floated about its origins. Many thought it was one of the "Steel Plant Riot Guns" but those seem to be later serial numbers. Seems Lieutenant Ken Fecher of the FTPD has a more vivid imagination than Michael Wolff. From a 2013 press release: "The Fort Thomas Police Department are the proud owners of a genuine Thompson .45 Caliber machine gun, otherwise known as a “Tommy Gun”. This gun is unique in that it was given to the department back during the Newport Steel Plant Riots of 1921-1922, and it was given to us by Mr. John T. Thompson of Newport, who invented the gun in 1919. From what we have been able to uncover, Newport police received 6 of these weapons, Campbell County Police received 4 and Fort Thomas Police Received 2. Our Thompson is the sole surviving gun out of the 10 as all others were traded away for other departmental needs over the years. Our Thompson still has the classic 50 round drum barrel and is in complete working condition. It is on display at the Fort Thomas Police Department." Colt Chopper's pic of Colt Navy #7000 shows it has a smooth barrel and WWII Cutts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) That story has a real "my granddad carried this AR15 in WWII in Stalingrad with the 101st airborn" feel to it. Edited January 23, 2018 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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