USPS registered mail - WARNING!

[reconbob]

    I have used Registered Mail for over 40 years. I always considered it to be the safest way to ship high value

items. A few weeks ago I sold and mailed a complete parts set for an M1A1 Thompson. The kit was $2500 and

I tacked on $50 for shipment by Registered Mail.

   The guy claimed he never got the package. I go to the Post Office to file a claim. The post office here is small

(2 guys) and neither one of them had ever heard of a registered mail package to be lost, stolen, or go missing.

Between the two of them they have over 60 years of combined experience. The postmaster figured that the guy

got the package and that the carrier forgot to scan it.

    I file a claim. First thing I learn is that I have to REFUND the guys money BEFORE I can file a claim. I submit to

the post office (this is all done on-line, you can't do it at the local post office) a copy of the invoice for the kit,

which also included at the bottom copies of the three money orders the guy sent to pay for the kit. (The most you can get

a postal money order for is $1000, so the guy sent three - $1000, $1000, and $550.)

    I just got the reply from the post office and my claim is denied because I did not provide "acceptable proof

of value".  So a copy of the invoice, and copies of the money orders used to pay for the kit - which is

exactly what they ask for - is not sufficient to prove value.

    I don't know where to go from here, but I feel fortunate that this was a $2500 parts set, and not a $25,000

gun. How would you ever "prove" to them that a gun is worth $25,000?

 

Bob

    

[Frank I.]

Good luck Bob, Collecting insurance from any carrier is very difficult. It may show up yet, did it track to the PO?

 

 

[reconbob]

   When it gets tracked, there is no record" It's "lost" or "missing". That's why the postmaster thinks it was

delivered, but no scanned.

 

Bob

[anjong-ni]

Was the parts set sold on "Gunbroker"?

If the buyer has a good purchase record there, it might eventually show up.

I had something sent Priority and it was photo'd in front of "a" door.

But not MY door.

Two weeks later, a neighbor blocks away brought it by.   Good luck, Bob.        ....Phil

[TD.]

Bob,

I suspect the first answer from the Post Office is always no. Is there an appeal process? If so, use it. It does not matter that someone at the Post Office figured the carrier forgot to scan it. The evidence says it was not delivered. Period. It is not your job to disprove what someone thinks or figures. Also, you paid for Registered Mail, supposedly the safest method in the free world. Be sure and screen print the tracking information to use in your appeal.  Regarding value, I would bet you can find comparable sales on gunbroker.com over the last year to establish value. Obviously, it is worth something because the buyer paid $2500 for it. Use the appeal process while waiting to see if it turns up. A $2500 loss may be enough to hire a young attorney to file suit. Think bad press; Registered Mail is not 100% safe. That story would publish. Again, save the tracking information.  

Good luck! 

[Bridgeport28A1]

What are the characteristics of Registered Mail and Registered Mail Restricted Delivery?

The most secure United States Postal Service® mail service (protected by safes, cages, sealed containers, locks, and keys).

• Must be presented to a retail employee or rural carrier.
• Requires a signature upon delivery.
• Mailers using Registered Mail Restricted Delivery can direct delivery only to the addressee (or addressee's authorized agent).
• Delivery information provides delivery status or attempted delivery status when the item reaches its destination. Tracking is not provided as the item is en route to its destination.
• Registered Mail can be sent to military locations. However, delivery information is not available for items destined to an APO / FPO / DPO.
• A system of receipts is provided to monitor movement of mail from the point of acceptance to delivery. These receipts are not readily available and can only be accessed by initiating a claims form, which cannot be completed by phone.

What domestic mail classes and services can be sent as Registered Mail®?

Domestic Registered Mail is only available for Mail Classes:

• First-Class Mail®
• USPS Ground Advantage™ - Commercial
• USPS Ground Advantage™ - Retail
• Priority Mail®

 

What is the estimated delivery time for Registered Mail and Registered Mail Restricted Delivery?

• There is no estimated delivery time for Registered Mail, regardless of class.
• Registered Mail is kept highly secured and is processed manually, which naturally slows the speed at which it travels.
• Registered Mail is not recommended if speed of delivery is important.

• 
  
  Tracking Registered Mail

  Registered Mail (domestic and international) service and Registered Mail Restricted Delivery service alone cannot be tracked through the mailstream. Updated scans are not provided as the piece is processed from facility to facility. However, those mail services provide delivery information when a scan shows either a delivery status or information on an attempted delivery, which can be retrieved in several ways.

Edited February 23, 2024 by Bridgeport28A1
added USPS info

[deerslayer]

The first answer is always no.  Ive giled a few claims.   Then they will quite regulations falsely about how what you shipped isnt allowed (i had a drum damaged and they claimed it was a pistol part).

 

Chase it up the ladder and then tell whoever the next person you get that a copy of all this is going to your senator and the postmastet general along with the name of the postal employee that is giving you the runaround.

 

 

[colt21a]

As if postmasters and senators care about a class 3 thompson part kit.YEAH JUST MENTION MACHINEGUNS THAT WILL GET YOU REAL FAR.Good Luck with the claim. and don't expect it quick 50 years with fed ex ups and the mail, have just about seen it all..

as one time mentioning lawyers and other things did mean something.Today most say yeah f it go right ahead....had that on a few gun deals.5 g and above.TO 10G.

both times got the money back. and both times. lets just say a 1911 45 was involved.one was r.j. perry. the other was some dealer in ct. who sold the same MP-40 to 3 guys.STILL KEEP THE FILE AS A REMINDER.ONLY THING TO REMEMBER HAVE THE BALLS TO DO IT. AND DEERSLAYER I CAN TELL YOU THIS. MANY DON'T. 

[Bridgeport28A1]

20 hours ago, deerslayer said:

The first answer is always no.  Ive giled a few claims.   Then they will quite regulations falsely about how what you shipped isnt allowed (i had a drum damaged and they claimed it was a pistol part).

 

Chase it up the ladder and then tell whoever the next person you get that a copy of all this is going to your senator and the postmastet general along with the name of the postal employee that is giving you the runaround.

 

 

So I am curious, the USPS is saying pistols parts are a prohibited to send through the USPS system?

My understanding as a non dealer FFL is that pistols themselves require an Dealer FFL and a USPS form to lawfully ship through the USPS system As far I can determine firearm parts including pistol parts are fine to send through the USPS. I believe they are the remaining carrier that allows a non FFL holder to lawfully ship firearm parts. 

Pistol Frames are a different level of USPS regulation but are still not prohibited if the USPS regulations are followed.

Edited February 25, 2024 by Bridgeport28A1
wording

[deerslayer]

Pistols have to go dealer to dealer.  Long guns have to go to and from a dealer.  They quoted the pistol rule on a DRUM as the reason they wouldnt pay.  They stuck to that logic train through the first to levels.

[Frankford]

My Turn.

There has to be a signature from the person that recieved the package. Usually on the scaning phone they carry. 

And the POSTAL INSPECTORS will get to the bottom of this BS, report to them .  Also, Sounds like a service outage.

 

[LSU Tiger]

I've said it a thousand times.  Since the "scamdemic" the USPS isn't fit to do business with.  We rarely get the mail shown in their "informed delivery" emails.  I sincerely hope it works out for you and your customer. 

[Gio]

I sold most of my collector hand guns last year too a FFL seller that sells on Gunbroker. What concerned me was he was in AZ and I live in TN. He sent me shipping labels for Fed Ex and they picked them up. He had $10K insurance on each box and I was able to track. It worked out great 

Frank

[reconbob]

           I think part of the point here is that Registered Mail is supposed to be "bullet proof". Every time

the package changes hands it has to be signed for. Obviously something is rotten that there has been

no inquisition or accountability for the person who signed for it last. The buyer claims he never received

it, and the post office has no record of him receiving it. But what about the last guy - the carrier, the driver,

whoever, that signed for it the last time it was known to be in the system. Like I said, if I am getting screwed

by the post office (just sent the second appeal to try to "prove value") I am glad its "only" $2500 and not

$25,000. 

Bob

[TD.]

Frankford - excellent idea. 

Bob,

Have you contacted the USPS Postal Inspectors? They should be interested in any Registered Mail shipment that is unaccounted for, especially if a postal employee signed for it last. Continue with your appeal but this is another avenue that may yield results.  

[Rekraps]

See my post on my ppsh41 that was lost for 41 days, registered USPS. Nightmare. Good luck filing a claim, and getting anyone to help. We had to call the ATF/FBI before any action was taken and the package was eventually found. I wanted the gun, not the insurance. 

[Rekraps]

It's a crap shoot, especially establishing value, proving it was in the package... oh la la!

[Robert Henley]

It sounds like it's kind of like getting reimbursed by Gunbroker for a deadbeat bidder.  It took me many months to do so after numerous attempts.  The point being it only takes one time to leave a sour taste in your mouth.  Registered Mail should be the best way to send something but turns out there are unanticipated problems.  Only takes one time.  Certainly gives you pause to use Registered Mail, especially for something like a $25K gun as pointed out.

[reconbob]

  On the third attempt to prove the value of the $2500 M1A1 parts set I succeeded. Sending a copy of the original invoice along with copies of the USPS money orders used to pay for it were not acceptable proof of value.

    I went back through emails and orders and sent copies of emails where two separate customers requested a quote for the parts set and my reply that the price was $2500. I also sent copies of the two separate invoices and the postal money orders used to pay. And I included a copy of a Gunbroker invoice where I sold an M1A1 parts set for $2500.

    I am older and wiser now. I have sold machine guns in the past in the $15K-$20K range and sent them registered mail. But how could I prove value if they do not accept the invoice and a copy of the payment? Unlike the parts sets I could not backtrack and find multiple quotations and invoices for the same item. They were one of a kind. 
 

    I can see it now - sell a transferable Thompson for $25K. It gets lost. The post office, who know nothing about machine guns, see that a post sample sells for $3K and considers that to be the value of the gun. No thanks.

Bob

[Robert Henley]

Bob,

Glad to hear you got it worked out with the Post Office.

Some years ago, I had a WWII Thompson shipped to my local FFL-SOT from a dealer in Kentucky via USPS Registered Mail.  To make a long story short, I saw from the tracking it was out-for-delivery in Atlanta (I don't even live in Georgia), so needless to say that made me nervous.  It worked out OK as it eventually got to my FFL-SOT.  However, what if they had delivered to someone in Atlanta and whoever that "lucky" person was decided to keep it (setting aside the issue of having signed for it).  A lot can go wrong with the USPS, especially these days with poorer service becoming the norm.

[StrangeRanger]

For $25K it would probably be worth transporting it yourself.

I've done this twice, once to Kalamazoo MI (easy trip from NE Ohio) and once to Memphis TN (not so easy)

 

[Robert Henley]

46 minutes ago, StrangeRanger said:

For $25K it would probably be worth transporting it yourself.

I've done this twice, once to Kalamazoo MI (easy trip from NE Ohio) and once to Memphis TN (not so easy)

 

With the restrictions now in place by FedEx, UPS, and USPS that becomes the best option in many cases.  Some years ago, I had an out-of-state buyer of a Title 2 gun who wanted me to transfer to my local FFL-SOT rather than ship to his local FFL (this was a number of years ago when a non-FFL could send by FedEx), and he paid the transfer taxes (it was two stamps) plus the time to transfer which at that time took about one month for a Form 4 transfer to a FFL-SOT).   My local FFL-SOT then transferred to his FFL-SOT who then transferred to the buyer, so the buyer ended up paying for two transfers ($800 total) along with the extra time to do so.  Not very efficient.

[Chromebolt]

Many years ago when the demilled kits were relatively cheap ($400), I ordered one for a customer.

Post office said it was delivered to my house (I live way off the main Rd). No box was found  anywhere near my house. After some phone calls, to the Post                          office, I found a couple small parts in the grass before the woods. 

i had 3 Great Danes who roamed  10 acres with an invisible fence. I found some packaging, but no more. 

Over the next couple of years, I found the well chewed buttstock and later the squirrel enhanced forearm.

Apparently, the new driver was afraid of the dogs and just dumped the package. Dogs thought it was a toy.

I was out $400

[colt21a]

i liked the above story and no Great Dane was harmed in the telling of it.

Why don't buyers take a trip to pick up, and if over $5 g or more might be wise bet.with stuff now at $25 to $75 g and you go there and might find something else to buy. or some important info.yeah $2500 buck kit. a hard hit to seller if no ins kickback.as the buyer is made whole/But with everybody bragging on the net they all make a $$$grand$$ a day and more .I guess a few days pay.

no matter what on one deal or another we all learn a hard lesson....IMAGINE 3 EXC COND STENS WITH FREE MAGS.

[Frank I.]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:14 PM, reconbob said:

  On the third attempt to prove the value of the $2500 M1A1 parts set I succeeded. Sending a copy of the original invoice along with copies of the USPS money orders used to pay for it were not acceptable proof of value.

    I went back through emails and orders and sent copies of emails where two separate customers requested a quote for the parts set and my reply that the price was $2500. I also sent copies of the two separate invoices and the postal money orders used to pay. And I included a copy of a Gunbroker invoice where I sold an M1A1 parts set for $2500.

    I am older and wiser now. I have sold machine guns in the past in the $15K-$20K range and sent them registered mail. But how could I prove value if they do not accept the invoice and a copy of the payment? Unlike the parts sets I could not backtrack and find multiple quotations and invoices for the same item. They were one of a kind. 
 

    I can see it now - sell a transferable Thompson for $25K. It gets lost. The post office, who know nothing about machine guns, see that a post sample sells for $3K and considers that to be the value of the gun. No thanks.

Bob

I'm glad you got some resolution, in my experience dealing with lost, damaged shipments, you must be persistent. They never pay on the first attempt hoping you will give up. 

I wonder WHAT happened to the parts kit? Pretty big box to go missing. The missing signature is a mystery.

Once I had a registered mail shipment that was lost, the PO found it locked in their cage, apparently they forgot about it.