Can you give me information from the serial number?

[inertord]

7 hours ago, Chappy said:

Got Uzi

I can see that the receiver is solid. The reweld is actually a good job but would like to look from other angles. What surprises me is that why would a trigger frame be cut in the forst place. I have etra M1 trigger frames from when iI was stocking up on parts kits so the issue for me is:

1. Why cut a trigger fame?

2. Why go to the time and expense of welding when they are plentiful on the secondary market?

There were periods in the 1970-80’s prior to the many parts kit imports, when M1 Thompson Trigger Frames were fairly scarce and pricey. Welding up demilled parts was simply an option to obtain a needed part at that given time. 

[Chappy]

Thanks, Got Uzi, I did n't know the history of fiest anf famine concerning the parts. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Chappy

[Chappy]

TSMGguy -I understand that personal inspecion would be best but I also live 100 miles away from an airport and after the TSA bully boys I will not fly anymore. After Covid (I was a federal contractor) I have pretty much given up on most people and prefer to stay in West Texas or Oklahoma. So I rely on the expertise of RIA and the high fees of Morthy. At least with RIA there is an examination period. I do expect some things to be missed but not outright fraud by the seller. Take a look at the item below. If it is found to be misrepresented and an excellent fake, then their is recourse. Too many on this forum expect faults and phonies and say you need to see it to believe it. In a digital world that is not always possible. Internet auctions have exploded and opened the country to national pricing and absentee buying. We need to be able to trust yet have recourse.

https://www.bidsquare.com/online-auctions/dumouchelles/perret-geneve-swiss-diamond-enamel-14-kt-yellow-gold-ladys-revolving-watch-l-7-dia-1-5-5614987?_hsmi=285598382

[Chappy]

Inertord, thank you for the info. What I don't understand is why cut a lower when it isn't a controlled part?

[StrangeRanger]

28 minutes ago, Chappy said:

Inertord, thank you for the info. What I don't understand is why cut a lower when it isn't a controlled part?

delete

Edited December 11, 2023 by StrangeRanger
irrelevant reply

[Chappy]

It's obvious from the Form 4 that JEC is the applicants initials and he made the receiver. No doubt that this was manufactured in 84-85 and the auction company should have known as it is plain as day on the form. The seller used the A/O name  which was a copyright infringement but it is plain that he made this as a gun for himself some 40 years ago.

At the request of the auction house the forms have been taken down.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Chappy

[Chappy]

Here is how the auction house represented it as an A/O as a (hopefully) mistake.

At the request of the auction house the forms have been taken down.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Chappy

[StrangeRanger]

Who blanked out the mfgr. info on the Form 1?

[Chappy]

Crazy thing is that it is clearly A JEC garage build yet the auction house wrote down it was an A/O from Bridgeport on the AFT form. Crazy,...

[Chappy]

StrangeRanger

That was the auction house. I read though and saw his name. It is John E. Ca----- so there is the JEC in the S/N.

Pretty darned obvious that it is not a A/O build. It was built in Bucks County, PA not Brideport, Connecticut.

[Got Uzi]

After seeing the forms, IHMO the auction house royally screwed the pooch and 110% misrepresented the gun and IMHO should eat the listing and refund any moneys spent.  Yes the buyer should have looked closer and noticed something was off, but the auction house is flirting with fraud as to the way they listed it.

Auction houses like to get creattive to get unknowing buyers...RIA does this with their made up "A" designation catgory when they list a West Hurley Thompson.  They rarely say the words "West Hurley" but they will call it an "A" designation Thompson and hope no one is the wiser to the game they are playing then spend big money on it.  I question if that hasnt been the case with some of the WH guns sold at RIA for more than USGI ones....

[StrangeRanger]

3 minutes ago, Got Uzi said:

 I question if that hasnt been the case with some of the WH guns sold at RIA for more than USGI ones....

Or fools who want a nice pretty one as opposed to one that looks like it's been through a war.

[Chappy]

Got Uzi

Auction houses like to get creattive to get unknowing buyers...RIA does this with their made up "A" designation catgory when they list a West Hurley Thompson.  They rarely say the words "West Hurley" but they will call it an "A" designation Thompson and hope no one is the wiser to the game they are playing then spend big money on it.  I question if that hasnt been the case with some of the WH guns sold at RIA for more than USGI ones....

 

I never thought about what you wrote. That is true abou the listing and since I knew of the WH issues it never dawned on me that they were trying to get one over on the buying public. I saw this being done on their just concluded auction. Good point.

 

[inertord]

3 hours ago, Chappy said:

Inertord, thank you for the info. What I don't understand is why cut a lower when it isn't a controlled part?

That was a demill method used by the US Military at one time, saw or torch cut(s) thru both the receiver and frame and usually everything in between. Demilled parts were then auctioned as scrap. Just part of a military demill standard used at a certain point in time. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by inertord

[TD.]

Quick research showed the former owner is in his 80s. He may still be alive as I did not spend much time searching. Why don't you call him and find out firsthand about this Thompson submachine gun. If it runs, it may not be a bad deal at 15K. You most likely will not find one cheaper (but it needs to run). If you decide to keep it, perhaps bargaining with the auction house over the buyer's premium may be in order. It appears to me you have several options. The first decision is whether to buy it. Information from the prior owner and manufacturer may prove useful in making that decision. 

[NFA amnesty]

1 hour ago, Got Uzi said:

After seeing the forms, IHMO the auction house royally screwed the pooch and 110% misrepresented the gun and IMHO should eat the listing and refund any moneys spent.  Yes the buyer should have looked closer and noticed something was off, but the auction house is flirting with fraud as to the way they listed it.

Auction houses like to get creattive to get unknowing buyers...RIA does this with their made up "A" designation catgory when they list a West Hurley Thompson.  They rarely say the words "West Hurley" but they will call it an "A" designation Thompson and hope no one is the wiser to the game they are playing then spend big money on it.  I question if that hasnt been the case with some of the WH guns sold at RIA for more than USGI ones....

Agree!!

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

A minor point considering the deceptive auction description, but the sling is installed incorrectly as well. This is another example of a SOT not impressed with the post Maguire era ownership claiming legal ownership  of the name  "AUTO ORDNANCE" and "THOMPSON."

[johnsonlmg41]

Chappy,

I've also spent a lot of money at RIA, and while you might think you're a good customer at RIA, I can tell you from personal experience they use "as is, where is" to their full advantage.  I bought a high dollar accessory from them at one point they described as "original"  They would not take it back.  They refunded my shipping charges.  I've spent 6 figures there.  Buyer beware.  They have NO ONE there that knows anything about NFA guns, other than what they look up in books and online.  They struggle with transfers, so I take care of that myself since they have failed miserably on numerous form 4's.  Now that they have moved I suspect it will be worse?

[Chappy]

So to update. The auction house has noted they made a mistake. Yje offer is to remove all buyer premiums and sell for $1,5000. I believe I will forgo the deal and wait for a decent pre-may M1.

I want to thank all of you for your assistance. This all started with asking about the s/n thinking you could give me some insight. Insight I did receive. I leave you, hopefully a little wiser and more leary.

Be well. Merry Christmas to you and yours,

Chappy

Edited December 12, 2023 by Chappy

[Got Uzi]

Glad it’s all going to work out. While I have a pair of pre sample M1 type now, a transferable shooter for $15k I wouldn’t look past even if it’s not a WWII gun. Odds are it’s better steel than what was used in the WH M1 guns and would be a better long term shooter. 

[TSMGguy]

The auction house will probably list the gun again. It'll be interesting to see how the gun is described this time, and what it brings.

[TD.]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:32 AM, TD. said:

May I suggest you purchase Frank's excellent book, American Thunder, Third Edition, while waiting for the transfer. It is the authority on all WW II Thompson submachine guns. It is available on Amazon.com at a great price and probably directly from Frank if you want an autographed copy. Private Message (PM) Frank and ask him. This book should be in every Forum member's library. Period. 

Chappy,

I am happy everything worked out to your satisfaction. My initial advice as to buying Frank's book is still valid, especially if you are going to buy another M1 Thompson submachine gun. It will be the best 40 bucks you spend in the Thompson community. But if you decide to buy a Colt, I have another book in mind 😁

Good luck!

[Got Uzi]

If I was sitting in a better position (and not having just secured another Thompson on Friday) I'd have told you to finish the deal and I'd take it off your hands.

 

I do agree it'll be interesting to see how the auction company lists it a second time

[bug]

LOL, with all the free advertising, it'll probably hammer for 18 plus the buyer fees.

[ron_brock]

2 hours ago, bug said:

LOL, with all the free advertising, it'll probably hammer for 18 plus the buyer fees.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it does not work out in their favor.  It was a decent buy.