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I can't figure out how he got the paper behind the trigger!

Bismo... There are a lot of scammers in the Class 3 community. Machine gun parts are expensive. The Thompson community is relatively small. Many of the members of this Forum meet with each other once or twice a year at the Thompson association shows and shoots. It is a great place to meet new friends with similar interests and find legitimate deals. Cash is always king face to face. Sometimes there has been a deal offered in one state and a forum member lives close by and can check out the seller. Other times a forum member knows the seller and can double check to make sure the deal is legitimate. I applaud your caution, above. Stay vigilant!

Whelp, these things have a funny way of happening when you least expect it. After driving six hours back from Massachusetts with a new/ used Buick LeSabre, I was sitting in the third level of purgatory (the DMV) when I got a ping in my inbox telling me that yes, the day had come. My form 4 for my first Thompson had been approved! The shop that had possession of the Thompson was located two hours away, and closed in an hour forty five. Anyhow, ignoring those minor details, mission success! I'm now the proud owner of the 1928A1 S/N A026237. Which as I understand it, places its production as during 1940. What a day! Credit to SP Sarge for helping me make the connection with the folks out in Arizona who were selling this Thompson.

#1 1974 THP Tact squad member Paul Tackett #2 Late 30's early 40s JJ Jackson on right fender sporting a Thompson #3 Sgt. Oscar Stone, right, assistant training instructor, demonstrates on March 20, 1964, the Thompson submachine gun for Metro police recruit Joseph Herrod during the training session.

This weeks favorite..... the Vollmer MP. Who doesn't like a built in monopod? With 3 additional 40 round mags and pouch. Have a manual copy and WW2 bring back paperwork with it. Wonder what they would offer in the Cabela's gun library? We'll see what the next few weeks bring, but I'm sure it will be Russian?

This should work - The Unofficial Tommy Gun Page (archive.org) Bob

Yes, that is a used blish lock. I would also say that the wear rises to the level of damage vs. normal wear. In a properly functioning gun you don’t see wear like that. A lot of people sell used parts as new either because they are dishonest or because they don’t know the difference. There was a breech oiler listed as MINT/NOS up on GB for the longest time and the felt was worn and dirty and the bluing was 50% gone and you could see the ring shaped wear marks where the buffer hits. Really at a glance you knew it was not MINT, but there it was. You have to be careful with cosmoline. I bought some NOS mag catches from a reputable seller, they were packed in little zip lock bags and all gunked up so I just put them in the bin. Months later when i degreased them to use them they were all badly pitted. I am sure the seller did not know and was duped by whoever he got them from. Bob

I am constantly checking the price and availability for the parts in the trigger frame because we need them and use them to complete trigger frames for the blank guns. You cannot buy a set of those parts for less than $200. I just added up my most recent list and it was $283. This does not include the frame itself. We also make trigger frames and it takes about 3 1/2 hours to machine one from a solid bar 2 1/2” x 2” x 9 5/8”. This does not include the time it takes to engrave the fire control markings. You also have to add in the cost of the steel, the cost of stress relieving, and the cost to black oxide (blue). CNC machining costs about $90/hr. If you take all of the above into account, you’re looking at not less than $400 to make a trigger frame and if you were to sell it for $500 you’re theoretical profit is only $100 which would put it in the “don’t bother” zone. And if you add $283 for the small parts, if you sold it for $750 your theoretical profit is $67 - even more of a don’t bother. And this example is for a NEW manufacture frame - an original WW2 frame is worth more. About a year ago I helped out a guy who had 10 new manufacture frames and the small parts and he wanted me to assemble and blue them so he could sell them. He sold them all for $995 and could have sold more. Again - not original G.I. So based on all this an original stripped frame is worth at least more than a new mfg. one, and a complete one is worth not less than $995. I mentioned in a different thread about how a lot of guys are living in the past and their frame of reference is 1980’s $195 complete parts sets. Talk to someone today who was born 15-20 years later and has no memories of that and you will be surprised at what they consider values to be. One last note - many Thompson parts will never be made again because the cost to set up to make them will never be returned because at best you would sell dozens adding up to hundreds, not hundreds adding up to thousands. Bob

Savage 1928A1 Parts Kit British Lend Lease including barrel and bolt - Class 3 Parts & Accessories at GunBroker.com : 1047663285

There is still a lot of uninformed owners and sellers concerning some of the short comings for the Auto-Ordnance West Hurley Thompson submachine guns. It may be the seller does not know the two-piece actuator is not made to proper specification and the cocking ears can fly off during firing. Or they don't care. Certainly, a smooth ball USGI or a Waffenmeister 1928 actuator would be an ideal placement actuator. Those familiar with the West Hurley Thompson guns can immediately tell the fire control levers and magazine catch on this Thompson are West Hurley cast parts. I would not be surprised if the two-piece buffer pilot has never been replaced. And that can be a serious problem! For the new members on the forum interested in the West Hurley Thompson guns, I suggest reading my 2011 Small Arms Review magazine story: https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=224 An update to this story can be found in my fourth book, THOMPSON: Colt's, West Hurley's & More.

"1928 Thompson 45 runs perfect. On a Form 4 The charging knob comes loose from the actuator and need to be rewelded." Seriously? How about "POS needs to be used as a paperweight and replaced with a forged GI part that won't hit you in the face"

Looking back through his posted content it appears at one time this was a legitimate account. All I have the power to do is mark the account as a spammer restricting his posting capability until this is resolved.

Tell him, her, or it... you are a big time buyer and traveler. and make arrangements to pick up in person with cash,Set a date up.and also ask what else you have you buy millions of bucks of stuff a year. and no big deal to travel..watch how fast they trot away...I have done that a few times.they all passed.I can't imagine getting ripped ona major gun $10,000 to $50,000 however after my one MP-40 INCIDENT. I AM ALL PREPARED.to go to the door ....it IS sad, you have to get to that to get what you paid for.

I’ve never seen an AOC buffer pilot, so that is the reason for the inquiry. All I have ever seen are S marked Savage buffer pilots.

It fits like a GLOVE!

Below is a great discussion on the subject. If mine, I would not worry about it unless using the L drums on a weekly basis. A squirt or two will not hurt but, if mine, I would not do any more. Others may have different opinions. T

Welcome to the New England Thompson club!

If it is not too late, come to the TCA Show & Shoot for a great weekend of Thompson fun. I am sure Bill and John will allow all Board members to join TCA and pay at the door. Mention my name and I will be the first to welcome you. Me, I am going to give my Merle kit a good workout!

It appears to me that the magazine in the first picture is for the shot filled riot cartridges. No gap in the magazine well.

The week is upon us….if you want to see the displays or shoot, come on out. Can’t make it anymore plain than that, this only comes around once a year for this event.

All original post Imperial Army manual collection. Not just MGs as the manuals cover all sorts - from small arms, tactics, AA usage, equipment. optics, and so on. However the focus is on the MGs up to 1937. Pull out posters/diagrams, superb detailed diagrams, colour plates and photos. AH in the front and some unit stamped including SS. Please email if of serious interest as I have lots of photos to send and/or can do more on request. Worthy of a museum and a serious collector/enthusiast. Either contact me through the Forum or direct mark.finneran@hotmail.co.uk 11 large manuals, nice front covers!! and lots of cards/pamphlets etc. Including postage US$2200. This is some US$800 less than the European price. Trades sought are WWI German MG08 or 08/15 related. Postage will not be issue (APO). Mark

I ask myself this question all the time. It really depends on the day... Right now, it's between the MG34 and MP5k. Other days, it's the BREN or AM180. Life is full of important choices

Yesterday I tested my Merle Bitikofer .22 conversion unit with my Thompson M1 submachine gun, to establish the rounds per minute speed with each of the springs included in the kit. This is my range report. My kit came with two recoil springs, one is 9 1/4” long and the other is 11”. I also had a spring that was provided to me by Capt. Monty Mendenhall, who had written an article back in 2010 about a spring that he developed with Merle and Dr. Ed Shaughnessy, a firearms designer and a teacher of advanced engineering at Duke University. Capt. Mendenhall’s spring was 12 1/2”, but he had told me that he was sending me the spring long, so that I could cut it a little at a time, until I got the desired RPM count, and reliability. He explained that he had been looking at ways to slow the cyclic rate of the gun down to about 650 RPM. I ended up cutting about one inch off of the spring, I might take more, but maybe not. Let me explain why. I fired a full 30 round Black Dog Magazine full of Federal .22LR ammo, the bulk pack sold at Wal-Mart with the 36 grain hollow point bullet. This was the ammo recommended with the conversion kit, and it worked reliably for me. I clocked the round per minute speed of this ammo through my Thompson M1 submachine gun using a PACT shot timer with a RPM function. The results are as follows- 1. The 9 1/4” spring gave me a speed of 730 RPM. 2. The 11” spring gave me a speed of 913 RPM. 3. After first trying Capt. Mendenhall’s spring full size, I found it was not reliable. I cut the spring from 12 1/2” to 11 5/8’, This gave me a speed of 598 RPM, a nice, steady, noticeably slower speed. Capt. Mendenhall recommended a length of 12", but I ended up cutting a little more. YMMV I also found that when I used my 50 round drum, the drum converted for me by Dan Block, it was unreliable with the 11” and the 11 5/8” springs. It only worked reliably with the 9 1/4” spring, giving me a speed of 764 RPM. I had an issue with this drum in the past, but now I think the problem has been solved by using the right spring. I will do some more testing, and keep you guys posted on my progress. Using the Thompson with the .22 conversion unit is a lot of fun. It allows me to shoot a lot of cheap ammo, and gives me plenty of trigger time with my M1. The Mendenhall spring slows the cyclic rate down even more that the slowest spring provided with the Bitikofer kit, it reminds me of a M3 grease gun. The Black Dog magazines are pretty good, not fool proof, but very good. I believe I have sorted out my issue with the drum, but I do think a little more testing is needed, just to be sure.

I was able to purchase this Colt Browning Machine Rifle recently. Here are some pictures of the gun and accessories. I was very fortunate that a member of the forum responded to my post and offered to sell this excellent BAR. The only item I would like to find is an original 1918 dated manual.

our Liberals have been calling all semi_automatics if they have plastic stocks assault rifles, most now banned on a buy back program, yes totally stupid but they are in control until next election cycle

Dogman, I had previously put my OOW 1918A3 rifle W/flash hider , in the M1950 padded jump case, so I knew it would work that way. I don't use the bipod so it never occured, and very surprised, me that the case wouldn't work with bipod installed. In 1950 the BAR was a important part of the rifle squad , so why make such a case. Nate, You are correct. The steel, skelitan butstock is one of the British jobs made to replace a broken wood stock. It is pictured with a Winchester M1918 Automatic Machine Rifle with British lend/lease stamps. I had Dan Block make a wood stock, which is currently on the rifle. Thanks for your interest. Jim C

Some photos of a Manville 37mm Gas Shell, measures approximately 7.5 inches in length. Also some factory literature that was wrapped around the shell when packaged.

The WW2 ordnance drawings for the Thompson have a note near the title block of the drawing that says "Ref. A.O.C. dwg #" and then the original Auto Ordnance (NOT U.S. Ordnance) drawing number. The U.S. ordnance drawing number is marked outside the bottom left of the title block. The prefix to the drawing number - A, B, C, or D is the size of the drawing. Somewhere along the way, the original U.S. Ordnance drawing number had the prefix "65" added, but otherwise the drawing number is the same. In 1957 all of the drawings were "back filed" and this note is also next to the title block. I assume this means that they realized the guns would no longer be produced and the drawings were archived. So all of this WW2 data was stored at the U.S. Rock Island Arsenal (not the commercial Rock Island Armory) and was available from the government via Freedom of Information Act requests. I requested and received drawings around 1980. The requested drawings were provided as microfilm "windows" imbedded in the old IBM cards. i do not know to what extent this was automated since this was years before personal computers were available. Sometime during the mid-late 1990's all of the engineering data was transferred to Picatinny Arsenal and FOIA requests are directed there. However, for whatever reason, not all of the drawings are there. Whether it's because they were lost in transit, or because they were never available I do not know. But modern technology now means that the drawings are available in PDF format, and emailed to recipients. A good example of a drawing that is missing is the drawing for the M1A1 bolt. M1928A1 bolt, M1 bolt - no problem. But they do no have the drawing for the M1A1 bolt. I don't think there is anything sinister here. These WW2 drawings are 80+ years old now, and the drawings are requested by drawing number and name. And a guy sitting at a computer searching a database has no idea what the drawings are for. There are other Thompson drawings missing from the database as well. It's probably just the inevitable loss over the years. Bob

TD, not all Savage M1 frames had a pinned threaded boss. Some Savage frames had a machined threaded boss. The FULL AUTO marking on two lines and the George E Goll GeG stamp are the two best ID methods.

68coupe, The leather case pictured above won't work with the bipod . You need a 1950's padded jump case. Should be perfect. do a search. Jim C

Submarine Thompson{that's what put it in the atlantic} and now all perfect.I had #894 21a done back around 35 years ago. the only Thompson i ever had restored. pitted barrel. and yes probably a 70% gun. more finish loss and some pits; came out perfect. and no place near that garbage pit they show here.WHEN I SOLD IT I PUT IT ON TABLE WITH OTHER 21'AS AND AC;S ALL HAD BEEN WELL OVER 95 TO 99% TEN GUNS, THE BUYER PICKED #894 and i said what it was he said that's good this is the one i want.

Hard to control? Not really

That is correct, but what happened was trigger frames got mismatched with the receivers, and while secured in the rack, the wrong serial numbers were recorded. So around 1943-44 or so they were ordered to stop numbering M1-M1A1 trigger frames, there is more detailed info in American Thunder 3. That is a pretty low serial number, the lowest I had ever seen recorded was by Roger Cox, as I (vaguely) recall was #153

I'm still waiting on a suppressor transfer. E-file trust from Silencer Shop. It went pending 1/15/24. I don't understand how you guys get them approved in a week...smh

Guil58, Welcome to the Thompson forum. Thank you for posting. I don't think I have ever seen an M1 or M1A1 frame originally numbered in that location. That said, the M1 series of Thompson guns is not my specialty. The threaded boss for the butt stock (shown in your picture) will tell which manufacturer made that particular frame. If on the side of the frame you can tell the threaded boss is pinned to the frame - Savage Arms; if the threaded boss was made as part of the frame (no pin head showing on the side of the frame) - Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport factory. Since the circular GEG or George E. Goll inspector mark is present, I am guessing Savage Arms. I am interested in French literature on the Thompson submachine gun. Please post some pictures of your 1921 French documents.

I got my copy of The Thompson Encyclopedia, Vol. 6 yesterday and I have been going through it. I have been interested in the West Hurley guns, I am not really sure why. The story is a good one, and vol. 6 goes into a bit of detail, it does not disappoint. Mark

Hit up Mike Duke. If you need his contact info message me. He was getting ready to possibly open up into doing some in different calibers.

A parts out parked Colt 21ac. a plain old shooter now. it is not original in any form today. like a guy takes a Luger rig with 2 matching mags. and holster and tool. tosses out the holster and tools,sells the 2 matching numbered mags. and finish it in black caracole. no value but to shoot it.ALL OR ANY ORIGINALITY is gone forever. and not coming back.you have a Thompson to fondle shoot and enjoy. Well the dept has. and if its form 10 at that place it will stay. Joliet p.d. and Stateville. THE PRISON HAD A FEW ORIGINALS AND SOME DONE OVERS. when checked a number of form 10's and they will remain there. also Will County Sheriff gun #3151 a 21a needed help.and #1875 out of Markham,il. a long ago reblue. but al least a transferable.THANKS FOR POSTING PICS OF PROOF OF LIFE. VALUE $15,000 THE SUM OF ITS PARTS. GOING BACK TO BLUE.....35 and 40 years ago. we did not take slews of pictures unless you ran around with a camera.we bought sold and traded. today they can take all the pics they want to preserve the find.

Buy the book

Heres a crazy notion......print it off and use this thing called a PEN. This isn't a new problem, but a known issue. Same as trying to print forms off using an Apple device as it puts an "X" over the signature section of the form

WTF does this have to do with the Owen? You need to post your stuff in the relevant forums

Picking a favorite is tough; there are so many fascinating NFA items to choose from! I am very much a history buff who is into the "old stuff", so perhaps (??) my favorite is the WWI German Bergmann LMG 15nA . . . a "bullpup" type design that was 80-100 years ahead of its time (IMO). From what I have read, the German military found the Bergmann LMG 15nA to be a better design than the MG 08/15, but phased out the Bergmann and concentrated on 08/15 production becuase the 08/15 was already in service in larger numbers and had so many parts that are interchangeable with the MG08.

Posted on Sturm here in case you missed it: https://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34662-great-wsj-article-on-larry-vickersatf-etc/ The Wall Street Journal article: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/the-gun-influencer-who-used-small-town-cops-to-import-machine-guns-bf91641c DOJs website: https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/north-carolina-and-north-dakota-police-chiefs-and-federal-firearms-licensees-indicted

My favorite NFA item is my RR PP MP5 that I have had since '87. It always goes bang. Even Dolf Goldsmith enjoyed shooting it.

Simply magnificent! Truth be known, I like the 1911s as much as the Thompsons. Each were, and still are the apex of design.

My son works as an architectural technologist, so his office has a good copier; he has kindly scanned the original drawings of the transit chest for us. If anyone is interested in copies, drop me a PM with your email address, and I'll forward them on. In exchange, for those who can afford it, how about a small donation to the board, at your discretion. David could always do with a little extra help, to keep the Thompson History Alive. https://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18621-donations-to-machinegunboardscom-very-happily-accepted/#comment-158813 For those who can't afford it, you'll still get copies of the drawings, if you want them, just send me a PM 🤫

I was reminded of this topic by a fellow forum member on the MP38/40 forum (How many MP40's are there?) and wanted to open this up for discussion and comment. Many of you may not know that the legislation in '86 closing off new transferrable MG's included an amnesty period whereby those of us, or anyone for that fact, could declare and register with the Feds MG's that were up to that time, essentially ghost guns. There was tremendous speculation about this amnesty being a sham for confiscation etc., but what really happened was that the Feds did in fact stick to their word and grant real amnesty for/to anyone or any business who declared and demonstrated possession of said MG (or what the ATF called/defined as a MG). Now, we also know that a lot (and we all know there was a lot!) of individuals did not trust the Feds, so they simply did not declare their gun. Problem. The legislation allows for up to THREE, yes THREE amnesty periods, of which only one has been implemented to date, that being the original '86 amnesty. During the Pistol Brace public comment period, I submitted a suggestion to the ATF that perhaps the time was right to offer yet another amnesty period. Doing so would: Allow those individuals (and it will be mostly individuals, not companies) who did not trust the Feds, and now know they will not confiscate the guns, to declare them, Allow children and spouses of WW2, Korea and Vietnam vets who many have spirited guns back to the US, and who are passing away in greater numbers, to legally declare and manage such guns,Allow the ATF to get a better handle on how many total MG's there really are, and keep them out of the hands of criminals,Increase the total pool of available transferrable MG's, thus moderating retail pricing,Keep unsuspecting relatives and family members from becoming possible felons, just because dad or grandpa has a gun in the basement or attic.Contribute to the historical value of many really cool C&R guns,Now, in consideration of the fact that since Vietnam, the military has without question instituted very strong policies on bring backs, I further suggested that the ATF limit the Amnesty qualified MG's (complete weapons) to guns manufactured on or before the last service member departed Vietnam (April 30, 1975). This will eliminate any openly illegal bring backs from then on, and specifically prohibit manufactured receivers "tubes", or domestic manufactured MG's after the declared date of April 30, 1975. In addition, any MG that was federal or state property, and declared stolen etc. would not qualify. So, as an example: My dad dies or moves to an assisted living facility, and when I clean out his attic/home I find a MP 40. Because most WW2, Korean and Vietnam vets are now sufficiently aged that their families are assisting in their care, we can assume that MOST, not all but MOST of the guns in question are now identified. So taking advantage of the amnesty period, I declare it and now the market has another great gun for collectors, this gun will not find its way onto the black market AND the Feds have one less "ghost" gun to worry about. Next example: Uncle dies and we clean out his house and find two M16's, both marked US Government Property. Seems that Uncle snuck them home during the Vietnam war and they are both stolen/contraband. I declare them and the Feds identify them as stolen, thus the guns are accounted for and returned to the Feds. Good ending. So what do you think? I don't know why the ATF does not consider this. Seems to me to be a great policy.