Tgriff 212 Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Hoping to acquire some info from some of the well educated on this forum. I am lucky enough to be an armorer at my PD which has a Thompson model 1921. with a serial # of 2954. I have some provenance due to records kept by the PD. Is there any additional information to be had by the serial # itself? Any info would be great. If anyone would have an idea of value I’d much appreciate that as well. I believe it has an incorrect rear grip and it is missing the button to remove the stock. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 (edited) Hello, Your gun has the following information posted in Gordon Herigstad' s, Thompson Submachine Gun Book. These two volumes have the most thorough information on all 15,000 Colt Thompson Guns. Your gun has a smaller, First Type Compensator, which is correct for the sale date of the gun. All Colt Thompsons were made without compensators and had them added. You are correct the rear grip has been replaced with an M1/M1A1 series grip. These grips are configured differently than the 1921/1928 style grips. It also appears that you front grip has also been replaced, the color of the grip and configuration are not correct. The butt stock color appears okay and it should have a small "Anchor" cartouche on the front of the buttstock just below the metal piece of the locking mechanism. If it is not a Colt butt stock, but WWII made, this also affects the value. It also appears that you gun has been refinished at some point, it appears to be Parkerized. The original finish of the guns was blue. The internal parts look all correct. It is a nice early gun with the earlier Automatic/Semi-Automatic markings. Your gun, due to the refinish, is a shooter grade Colt Thompson. The value is somewhere around $25,000,00 to $30,000.00. This is due to the missing/incorrect parts and incorrect finish. Edited March 29 by gijive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekraps Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 hard to believe that PD's still keep these in inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 I agree, it looks parkerized. I wonder why? And when? Oh well… Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 (edited) Tgriff 212, Welcome to the Thompson forum. Thank you for sharing information on NO 2954. Known history of NO 2594 does not include a police department. Do you know when your department acquired NO 2594? The National Firearm Act (NFA) act was passed in July 1934 and required registration of all machine guns, etc. Do you have a Form 1 for NO 2954 showing the date of registration. If so, this is great provenance. gijive knows his Colt Thompson guns! Rekraps - I would bet there are a lot of Thompson submachine guns, Colt and otherwise, still in law enforcement inventories. reconbob - I would guess the beautiful blue Colt Carbonia finish was wearing thin and someone at the department in the past decided to have it refinished not understanding how it would impact future value, appearance and desirability. Unfortunately, it appears some of the markings suffered during the refinish. Triff - I caution against shooting NO 2954 with the 1921 actuator. The cocking ears on these actuators are fragile. Replacement Colt 1921 actuators usually cost around $1500 plus depending on condition. Also, the buffer pilot appears to be situated very deep in the buffer tube. On Thompsons this old it is very common for the small buffer discs inside the buffer tube to be missing or so compressed and hard they provide no protection when firing. This can result in the back of the bolt hitting the buffer tube and damaging both (very expensive) parts. With the substitution of a few parts, there are ways to safely shoot NO 2954 without causing damage. If you post a picture of the butt plate and the stock slide assembly (detached from the frame), we will be able to tell if the butt stock is original to NO 2954. Edited March 29 by TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 A parts out parked Colt 21ac. a plain old shooter now. it is not original in any form today. like a guy takes a Luger rig with 2 matching mags. and holster and tool. tosses out the holster and tools,sells the 2 matching numbered mags. and finish it in black caracole. no value but to shoot it.ALL OR ANY ORIGINALITY is gone forever. and not coming back.you have a Thompson to fondle shoot and enjoy. Well the dept has. and if its form 10 at that place it will stay. Joliet p.d. and Stateville. THE PRISON HAD A FEW ORIGINALS AND SOME DONE OVERS. when checked a number of form 10's and they will remain there. also Will County Sheriff gun #3151 a 21a needed help.and #1875 out of Markham,il. a long ago reblue. but al least a transferable.THANKS FOR POSTING PICS OF PROOF OF LIFE. VALUE $15,000 THE SUM OF ITS PARTS. GOING BACK TO BLUE.....35 and 40 years ago. we did not take slews of pictures unless you ran around with a camera.we bought sold and traded. today they can take all the pics they want to preserve the find. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Maybe it's just the angle of the picture, but the collar on the buffer tube looks off to me, again, could just be the pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brveagle Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 (edited) Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't value be dependent on if it's transferable or not? Edited March 29 by brveagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Colt Chopper, I agree with your observation. I am thinking it is the photograph, but it would be great if Tgriff would also post a few pictures of the buffer pilot and the back of the bolt. If it the buffer tube is bent, no doubt there has been contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgvince Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 That front sight on the comp is a bit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Lest we forget that these were working guns, back in the day these were beat to hell and used. Weren’t for sitting around and polishing like they are today. Given how this one looks and has been redone, I’d say it saw some use in its time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 YES VALUE IS FOR TRANSFERABLE ONLY.and what true Thompson guy would want it.{when i was selling} guys wanted above 80% always and craved for 95% plus all original no touch up or replaced wood or parts or barrels. and if you had 98 to 99% you could ask whatever you really wanted for them. i considered the 75% gun with wear or not great barrels shooters...and had 2 like that to shoot. so if its okay to sell from a dept. i would say $15 g. to maybe $20 g to some wack job who wants a real Colt IF HE ONLY OWNS A WESTY...i REMEMBER selling the collection off in 2000, And guys whining $10 g at the shows. we can't afford that. and now they pay $50 g. 24 years later. WHO'S THE WACKO? And its only worth that when you cash the check. i offered to buy Curtis collection of what he had left, and he jumped over $100g to my offer.it would have taken me to 2010. to make out. the secret is sell while you are alive. so you still can enjoy something....anyways thanks to the poster. who dug another one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgriff 212 Posted March 30 Author Report Share Posted March 30 Awesome! Thank you guys for the info. I will take some more pictures and post them on this thread when I can. As far as I know this gun was purchased by the Crystal City State Bank in the 20s and then was transferred to our PD in 1974. This is the only form I have found at the moment which is the transfer to our pd from the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 the form number on that form is what makes all the difference in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 I might assume somebody was checking it out in 1974 told the bank no paper on it so they transferred it to the dept.not many in 1934 did keep up with reg. and when 1968 happened. some did not care. a lot was going on between 1968 /1974.So the bank saw a way to do a good deed and transfer to local dept.> since they could not sell it to any dealer at that time.I am sure all that mess that was done to it was at the dept. the bank never would never do that. And by the looks of cratering under the parked overlay it had rust and pits also.since i have at least looked at over a 1,000 Thompsons.IN MANY CONDITIONS.. THAT IS A POSSIBLE CLUE why the finish work.like i said a nice shooter to enjoy for the p.d. or training tool. have a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgriff 212 Posted April 8 Author Report Share Posted April 8 Hey guy, was finally able to get a few more pictures as requested. Hopefully this we’ll help. Also, I was not able to locate any stamps on the wood of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted April 8 Report Share Posted April 8 Bolt and actuator look correct. I don't see any receiver issues. The recoil buffer looks fine, other than it's "Bottomed Out" so to speak, possibly no red disc's left. It should not be fully compressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted April 8 Report Share Posted April 8 No felt in the breech oiler on the visible portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted April 8 Report Share Posted April 8 3 hours ago, Bridgeport28A1 said: No felt in the breech oiler on the visible portion. Good eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted April 9 Report Share Posted April 9 Tgriff 212, Thank you for the additional pictures. I would not even think about shooting NO 2954 with this buffer pilot. The buffer discs inside the buffer tube have long since compressed or decayed. Firing may cause the bolt to hit the back of the buffer tube and will definitely put undue stress on the back of the receiver. I have seen the back of (expensive) Colt bolts badly marred and buffer tubes broken when fired with a buffer tube in the condition you have pictured. Again, I would advise against firing NO 2954 or any Colt Thompson with an original Colt era (expensive) actuator. As noted by gijive above, the (pistol) grip and vertical fore grip are not original. The vertical fore grip appears to be a SILE reproduction. I would like to see some pictures of the butt stock, especially the butt plate and stock slide assembly. NO 2954 would make a great shooter Thompson submachine gun with the substitution of a few internal parts. A cut-down 1928 actuator along with a Diamond K Companies 1921/28 hybrid buffer pilot would allow many years of safe firing. Or with a USGI or Waffenmeister 1928 actuator, 1928 buffer pilot with polyurethane disc and recoil spring. A replacement World War II oiler is also needed. However, you have to understand what parts to obtain as there are many AOC West Hurley cast parts (junk) in the marketplace that you need to avoid at all costs. Here is a link to the 1928 Waffenmeister actuators. Early reviews of this reproduction part are favorable. Massachusetts (waffenmeisters.com) And a link to USGI Model of 1928 actuators. These are the best but more expensive and getting hard to find. Massachusetts (waffenmeisters.com) Both types can be cut down to 1921 style or used with a 1928 buffer pilot, polyurethane disc and recoil spring. I know, a lot to learn. But well worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgriff 212 Posted April 11 Author Report Share Posted April 11 Thank you all for the wealth of information. It has all been very helpful. TD., when I am able to get more pictures of the stock I will post them. And thank you for the links for the replacement parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNGUY45 Posted April 11 Report Share Posted April 11 On 3/29/2024 at 9:03 PM, Tgriff 212 said: Awesome! Thank you guys for the info. I will take some more pictures and post them on this thread when I can. As far as I know this gun was purchased by the Crystal City State Bank in the 20s and then was transferred to our PD in 1974. This is the only form I have found at the moment which is the transfer to our pd from the bank. Is that form 5320-5, or 5320-10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgriff 212 Posted April 21 Author Report Share Posted April 21 TD., Finally got additional pictures you were asking for of the buttstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68coupe Posted Sunday at 02:03 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 02:03 PM The only thing that I have expertise enough to comment on is that that hex socket butt plate screw is absolutely incorrect. FWIW, the Phillips head hadn't even been invented. Although, I would probably use them on my 27. They would be much less prone for a screwdriver to skip off the screw and scratch the surrounding finish, or burring of the screw head. So long as they're not metric. I have too many tools on the bench, as it is. Karl, 68coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted Sunday at 02:30 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 02:30 PM Tgriff 212, Thank you for the pictures of the butt stock. As I suspected, the butt stock is not from the Colt era. It is a World War II butt stock. Unfortunately, the release button has popped off - see red arrow - and been lost. This is a somewhat common occurrence if you slam the butt stock on the frame when installing it on the gun. Fortunately for your department, APEX Gun Parts has this part in stock: Thompson Buttstock Slide Catch Assembly, With Button, *NOS* (apexgunparts.com) Ask for Richard, a Thompson forum member. Perhaps he will give a police discount! I have looked for just the pressed fit button for many years but have never found just the button available. It is an easy part to change. Caution: Make sure the end of the forward stock slide screw stays below the surface of the slide. The end of the screw can mar the frame if it is positioned too high. This situation has damaged many a Colt frame serial number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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